Discussion:
Review request: publicity microflyer
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Znoteer
2023-06-05 19:40:01 UTC
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Hi all,
[snip]
I'd like to gather feedback on the wording and content of the flyer;
the copy attached to this email is based on the latest edit, and is
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/debian-flyers/-/merge_requests/23
The copy looks good to me. I didn't spot any errors.
--
Znoteer
***@mailbox.org
Donald Norwood
2023-06-06 00:50:01 UTC
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Hi,
Post by Znoteer
Hi all,
[snip]
I'd like to gather feedback on the wording and content of the flyer;
the copy attached to this email is based on the latest edit, and is
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/debian-flyers/-/merge_requests/23
The copy looks good to me. I didn't spot any errors.
Same. If anything I would increase the size of 'Debian' and the logo so the
flyer popped a bit more, though the wording speaks for itself. Good work!

The feedback on it would be great as well, it is always curious as to what
attracts people at events.
--



Be well,

-Donald
--
-
⢀⣎⠟⠻⢶⣊⠀
⣟⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Donald Norwood
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ B7A1 5F45 5B28 7F38 4174
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ D5E9 E5EC 4AC9 BD62 7B05
David
2023-06-06 01:10:01 UTC
Permalink
[my apologies for spamming multiple lists, but others seems to be doing
the same and I'm unsure how to avoid doing that]
For and after the upcoming release of Debian bookworm, I'd like to
(attempt to) promote Debian locally by distributing some small flyers
that are intended to be cheap to print and that include a QR-code
suitable for use from smartphones (relevant when the flyers are, for
example, posted on public noticeboards).
Hi. That sounds like an admirable project.
I'd like to gather feedback on the wording and content of the flyer;
I have this feedback:

I think your text works fine if your reader does know what an "operating system"
is. But if they don't, then I think your communication might be entirely unclear
to them.

I don't know the best form of words to address this issue, but below is a
quickly drafted suggestion. This text might have other flaws which I will
leave to you or others to improve. Good luck.

----- begin -----

Debian is a free operating system for computers of all kinds. It can
replace other operating systems such as Windows and MacOS, thereby freeing
your computer from their commercial restrictions. Debian is entirely
non-commercial.

Debian is generated by a huge community of expert volunteer developers with
subject area interest and expertise in the software they maintain – and all
of the source code for that software is available for you to read, modify
and redistribute. It receives timely security updates and continous
improvements.

Debian also distributes 63,000+ packaged non-commercial utilities and
applications, including software for businesses, programmers, scientists,
educators and artists.

To learn about Debian and to obtain a copy that you can run and optionally
install, scan the QR code above or visit the website:
https://www.debian.org

----- end -----
James Addison
2023-06-06 14:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, David - some responses inline.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 at 02:03, David <***@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Post by David
I think your text works fine if your reader does know what an "operating system"
is. But if they don't, then I think your communication might be entirely unclear
to them.
Twenty years ago, I would have agreed with you; and I think that the
reaction from people who are not engineers (then and now) is one of
two:

* Oh, I don't understand what an operating system is - can you explain
that to me? (an opportunity)
* People don't understand what operating systems are! (sometimes with
a dismissive and/or discouraging tone)

I am looking for more of the former responses, and am OK with those -
they are people who would like to learn, and I don't think that
dumbing down our message too much is appropriate. At the same time, I
don't want to overwhelm people with technical details - but I think
that it's fine to include a small amount of technical terminology.

Also: computers are everywhere nowadays, and commercial industry
itself has attempted to erase the meaning and idea of terms like
"operating system" and "web browser" - but they still very much exist
inside computers, so I think we should do our best to be honest, lest
we lose the ability to understand the technology that we rely on.
Post by David
----- begin -----
Debian is a free operating system for computers of all kinds. It can
replace other operating systems such as Windows and MacOS, thereby freeing
your computer from their commercial restrictions. Debian is entirely
non-commercial.
Perhaps this is quid-pro-quo (maybe that's the wrong term to use), but
I doubt that other operating systems would mention Debian in their
marketing materials, and although I'm not completely certain why that
is, it could be safest to follow the same approach. My sense is that
it's because they don't want to raise awareness of other options --
and in fact, perhaps that's a reason why we should act different and
_intentionally_ mention them (alongside helping with user
understanding, the intent you were going for), but I'm not sure yet.
Post by David
Debian is generated by a huge community of expert volunteer developers with
subject area interest and expertise in the software they maintain – and all
of the source code for that software is available for you to read, modify
and redistribute. It receives timely security updates and continous
improvements.
I have a slight preference for placing the "what" (the updates) before
the "who" (the community) in this case, because I think that our
updates are extremely effective, on-par or exceeding the quality (and
transparency) of what most commercial systems offer. That's something
I enjoy greatly as a user, and why I'm trying to take part (hopefully
positively) in volunteering - but the value proposition (for users) is
likely to be the experience, I think.
Post by David
Debian also distributes 63,000+ packaged non-commercial utilities and
applications, including software for businesses, programmers, scientists,
educators and artists.
The language here does require some adjustment, thank you (the 63k+
figure here refers only to packages in 'main').
Post by David
To learn about Debian and to obtain a copy that you can run and optionally
https://www.debian.org
----- end -----
Perhaps I seem a bit defensive about some of these changes; I am
likely to include them in some form in the resulting microflyer,
although as probably evident, I'm not ready to incorporate them as-is.

Thanks again,
James
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana
2023-06-06 14:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by James Addison
Thanks, David - some responses inline.
Twenty years ago, I would have agreed with you; and I think that the
reaction from people who are not engineers (then and now) is one of
* Oh, I don't understand what an operating system is - can you explain
that to me? (an opportunity)
* People don't understand what operating systems are! (sometimes with
a dismissive and/or discouraging tone)
I am looking for more of the former responses, and am OK with those -
they are people who would like to learn, and I don't think that
dumbing down our message too much is appropriate. At the same time, I
don't want to overwhelm people with technical details - but I think
that it's fine to include a small amount of technical terminology.
I agree with James amd I believe it's not nice quote "Windows and MacOS"
in a Debian flyer. Let's focus on Debian :-)

Best regards,

--
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls)
Belo Horizonte - Brasil
Debian Developer
Site: http://phls.com.br
GPG ID: 0443C450

Paul Wise
2023-06-06 03:20:01 UTC
Permalink
I'd like to gather feedback on the wording and content of the flyer;
I would recommend replacing the specific number of packages in the
flyer with a more generic term like "many" or "thousands of" since this
represents a maintenance burden as the real number changes. Also, even
if you were to automate updating the number, the physical flyers will
get out of date with the number.

Similarly, the number of people contributing to Debian in 2023 is
currently estimated at less than 1000 and it was estimated as much less
than that in previous years. Probably the data isn't very accurate,
but I do think it is a good idea to avoid specific numbers as our
contribution levels fluctuate a fair bit. So I would drop "more than a
thousand" from it.

https://contributors.debian.org/

I suggest that the list of audiences we have software for be expanded
based on the list of Debian blends and include "other" as well. Perhaps
something like "software for businesses, programmers, scientists,
educators, artists, multimedia, gamers, children, medicine, ham radio,
politicians, home servers, accessibility and other uses".

https://www.debian.org/blends/
--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
James Addison
2023-06-06 14:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wise
I'd like to gather feedback on the wording and content of the flyer;
I would recommend replacing the specific number of packages in the
flyer with a more generic term like "many" or "thousands of" since this
represents a maintenance burden as the real number changes. Also, even
if you were to automate updating the number, the physical flyers will
get out of date with the number.
Similarly, the number of people contributing to Debian in 2023 is
currently estimated at less than 1000 and it was estimated as much less
than that in previous years. Probably the data isn't very accurate,
but I do think it is a good idea to avoid specific numbers as our
contribution levels fluctuate a fair bit. So I would drop "more than a
thousand" from it.
https://contributors.debian.org/
Thanks, Paul - I wasn't aware of that, and agree with updating the
wording for the contributor count.

Relating to the package count: I'm still processing some feedback and
ideas related to that, so: no confirmation either way yet, but some
edits will likely occur there.
Post by Paul Wise
I suggest that the list of audiences we have software for be expanded
based on the list of Debian blends and include "other" as well. Perhaps
something like "software for businesses, programmers, scientists,
educators, artists, multimedia, gamers, children, medicine, ham radio,
politicians, home servers, accessibility and other uses".
This is a tricky one. I did consider using mailing lists / blends as
sources of the audience list. What I ended up deciding instead was on
some fairly arbitrary list that I think would represent some of the
areas of expertise that most people around the world would understand.
I also prefer that to using a generic term like 'everyone' or 'anyone'
-- I think that inspiring a few general use cases in people's minds,
and helping them to think of their friends and colleagues, is
valuable.

Thanks again,
James
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