Discussion:
More proposed changes to debian-faq
(too old to reply)
Beatrice Torracca
2016-06-03 13:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi!

This is the second part of my proposed changes to debian-faq. Aside
minor changes in the English language (which probably need a review from
a native speaker) I changed some contents, specifically:

- mention amd64 (and not i386) as the common architecture
- I updated the example control file from the hello package (took it
from stable)
- In the discussion about package priorities, I took out some reference
to packages like w3m, mutt or exim4 which as far as I can tell no longer
have "Standard" priority but they are now with priority "Optional".
- I changed the reference to Custom Debian Distributions and Skolelinux
to Debian Pure Blends and DebianEdu/Skolelinux, respectively; the new
links are those the old links redirect to, anyway.
- I added a reference to the "Guide for Debian Maintainers" which is
more up to that than the New Maintainers' Guide.

Thanks,

beatrice
Justin B Rye
2016-06-03 15:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beatrice Torracca
This is the second part of my proposed changes to debian-faq. Aside
minor changes in the English language (which probably need a review from
[...]

Your English is almost flawless, but I noticed some other kinds of
problem.
Post by Beatrice Torracca
Index: pkg_basics.sgml
===================================================================
--- pkg_basics.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ pkg_basics.sgml (copia locale)
[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -94,9 +94,10 @@
file (<tt>debian/control</tt>), the installation or removal scripts
(<tt>debian/p*</tt>), or in the configuration files used with the package.
+<
<p>The <tt>AAA</tt> component identifies the processor for which
-the package was built. This is commonly <tt>i386</tt>, which refers to
-chips compatible to Intel's 386 or later versions. For other
+the package was built. This is commonly <tt>amd64</tt>, which refers to
+AMD64, Intel 64 or VIA Nano chips. For other
possibilities review Debian's FTP directory structure at <ref id="dirtree">.
For details, see the description of "Debian architecture" in the manual page
<manref name="dpkg-architecture" section="1">.
The content's good, but what's that extra "<"?

[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -196,7 +200,7 @@
package <tt>foo</tt> once <tt>foo</tt> has been unpacked from its Debian
archive (".deb") file. Often, 'postinst' scripts ask the user for input,
and/or warn the user that if he accepts default values, he should remember
- to go back and re-configure that package as the situation warrants.
+ to go back and re-configure that package as needed.
Many 'postinst' scripts then execute any commands necessary to start or
restart a service once a new package has been installed or upgraded.
I'd like to suggest a change to the start of that sentence:

Often, 'postinst' scripts ask users for input,
and/or warn them that if they accept default values, they should remember
to go back and re-configure that package as needed.

[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -275,7 +283,7 @@
<p>A virtual package is a generic name that applies to any one of a group
of packages, all of which provide similar basic functionality. For example,
both the <tt>tin</tt> and <tt>trn</tt> programs are news readers, and
-should therefore satisfy any dependency of a program that required a news
+should therefore satisfy any dependency of a program that requires a news
reader on a system, in order to work or to be useful.
They are therefore both said to provide the "virtual package" called
<tt>news-reader</tt>.
Given that trn is non-free, I would suggest instead mentioning slrn or
knews. Or given that twentyfirst-century newbies may never have heard
of USENET news groups, perhaps we should use a different example
virtual package, such as "editor" or "www-browser".

[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
Index: redist.sgml
===================================================================
--- redist.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ redist.sgml (copia locale)
@@ -36,9 +36,9 @@
<p>Yes. Debian-derived distributions are being created both in close
cooperation with the Debian project itself and by external parties. One can
-use the <url id="http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/" name="Custom Debian
-Distributions"> framework to work together with Debian; <url
-id="http://www.skolelinux.org/" name="Skolelinux"> is one such project.
+use the <url id="https://www.debian.org/blends/" name="Debian
+Pure Blends"> framework to work together with Debian; <url
+id="https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/" name="DebianEdu/Skolelinux"> is one such project.
<p>There are several other Debian-derived distributions already on the market,
such as Progeny Debian, Linspire, Knoppix and Ubuntu, that are targeted at a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
"Progeny Linux" vanished nine years ago, and "Linspire" eight years
ago. Maybe Linux Mint and Raspbian? Or grml?

[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -168,11 +168,11 @@
engine for newsgroups.
<p>For example, to find out what experiences people have had with
- finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching on
+ finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching
the phrase <tt>Promise Linux driver</tt>. This will show you all the
- postings that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
+ posts that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
these topics. If you add <tt>Debian</tt> to those search strings, you'll
- also get the postings specifically related to Debian.
+ also get the posts specifically related to Debian.
This is distinctly cobwebby - when I ask Google I find ten-year-old
books advising me that the best way to use Promise RAID controllers
even then was to use the standard open-source drivers in the mainline
kernel.

Plus, advising people to use Google Groups seems cruel.
Post by Beatrice Torracca
<item>Any of the common web spidering engines, such as
<url id="http://www.altavista.com/" name="AltaVista"> or
Alterswissenschaft? I would suggest DuckDuckGo.
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -179,7 +179,7 @@
<url id="http://www.google.com/" name="Google">, as long as you use
the right search terms.
- <p>For example, searching on the string "cgi-perl" gives a more detailed
+ <p>For example, searching the string "cgi-perl" gives a more detailed
explanation of this package than the brief description field in its
control file.
</list>
Oh, no, leave this. "Searching on" a string means using that string
as your search term (which is what's intended here); "searching" a
string would mean performing a search that goes through the string
looking for something.

Except that it's also cobwebby - libcgi-perl hasn't been a package
since round about Sarge.
--
JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Beatrice Torracca
2016-06-03 16:00:01 UTC
Permalink
On Friday 03 June 2016, at 15:53 +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:

Hi,
Post by Justin B Rye
Post by Beatrice Torracca
+<
<p>The <tt>AAA</tt> component identifies the processor for which
-the package was built. This is commonly <tt>i386</tt>, which refers to
-chips compatible to Intel's 386 or later versions. For other
[snip]
Post by Justin B Rye
The content's good, but what's that extra "<"?
Something that slipped unintentionally. I will correct it.
Post by Justin B Rye
[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -196,7 +200,7 @@
package <tt>foo</tt> once <tt>foo</tt> has been unpacked from its Debian
archive (".deb") file. Often, 'postinst' scripts ask the user for input,
and/or warn the user that if he accepts default values, he should remember
- to go back and re-configure that package as the situation warrants.
+ to go back and re-configure that package as needed.
Many 'postinst' scripts then execute any commands necessary to start or
restart a service once a new package has been installed or upgraded.
Often, 'postinst' scripts ask users for input,
and/or warn them that if they accept default values, they should remember
to go back and re-configure that package as needed.
I will incorporate this and your other suggestions/corrections in a new
patch, so that Holger can work on a cleaner patch.
Post by Justin B Rye
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -275,7 +283,7 @@
<p>A virtual package is a generic name that applies to any one of a group
of packages, all of which provide similar basic functionality. For example,
both the <tt>tin</tt> and <tt>trn</tt> programs are news readers, and
-should therefore satisfy any dependency of a program that required a news
+should therefore satisfy any dependency of a program that requires a news
reader on a system, in order to work or to be useful.
They are therefore both said to provide the "virtual package" called
<tt>news-reader</tt>.
Given that trn is non-free, I would suggest instead mentioning slrn or
knews. Or given that twentyfirst-century newbies may never have heard
of USENET news groups, perhaps we should use a different example
virtual package, such as "editor" or "www-browser".
OK. I will change the example to use www-browser and
konqueror/firefox-esr as packages.
Post by Justin B Rye
[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
Index: redist.sgml
===================================================================
--- redist.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ redist.sgml (copia locale)
@@ -36,9 +36,9 @@
<p>Yes. Debian-derived distributions are being created both in close
cooperation with the Debian project itself and by external parties. One can
-use the <url id="http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/" name="Custom Debian
-Distributions"> framework to work together with Debian; <url
-id="http://www.skolelinux.org/" name="Skolelinux"> is one such project.
+use the <url id="https://www.debian.org/blends/" name="Debian
+Pure Blends"> framework to work together with Debian; <url
+id="https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/" name="DebianEdu/Skolelinux"> is one such project.
<p>There are several other Debian-derived distributions already on the market,
such as Progeny Debian, Linspire, Knoppix and Ubuntu, that are targeted at a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
"Progeny Linux" vanished nine years ago, and "Linspire" eight years
ago. Maybe Linux Mint and Raspbian? Or grml?
based on the info in
https://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros.en.html, I will change my
proposal to "...such as grml, LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition), Knoppix
and Ubuntu..."
Post by Justin B Rye
[...]
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -168,11 +168,11 @@
engine for newsgroups.
<p>For example, to find out what experiences people have had with
- finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching on
+ finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching
the phrase <tt>Promise Linux driver</tt>. This will show you all the
- postings that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
+ posts that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
these topics. If you add <tt>Debian</tt> to those search strings, you'll
- also get the postings specifically related to Debian.
+ also get the posts specifically related to Debian.
This is distinctly cobwebby - when I ask Google I find ten-year-old
books advising me that the best way to use Promise RAID controllers
even then was to use the standard open-source drivers in the mainline
kernel.
Plus, advising people to use Google Groups seems cruel.
"cobwebby" is a new word for me :)

maybe changing "Promise controllers" with NVIDIA graphic card? anyway I
don't think that the object of the search counts much, but rather the
suggestion on how to do the search.

As for the cruelty of suggesting Google Groups, I imagine Google Groups
(and USENET in general) are not as used today as they were in the
past. Still I think Google Groups indexes many newsgroups. I don't feel
comfortable in removing the suggestion and I'll let one of the main
authors of the document decide on this regard.
Post by Justin B Rye
Post by Beatrice Torracca
<item>Any of the common web spidering engines, such as
<url id="http://www.altavista.com/" name="AltaVista"> or
Alterswissenschaft? I would suggest DuckDuckGo.
I will change that in my new proposal.
Post by Justin B Rye
Post by Beatrice Torracca
@@ -179,7 +179,7 @@
<url id="http://www.google.com/" name="Google">, as long as you use
the right search terms.
- <p>For example, searching on the string "cgi-perl" gives a more detailed
+ <p>For example, searching the string "cgi-perl" gives a more detailed
explanation of this package than the brief description field in its
control file.
</list>
Oh, no, leave this. "Searching on" a string means using that string
as your search term (which is what's intended here); "searching" a
string would mean performing a search that goes through the string
looking for something.
OK, thanks
Post by Justin B Rye
Except that it's also cobwebby - libcgi-perl hasn't been a package
since round about Sarge.
cobwebby again :) - I will replace it with evince (the first package
that came to mind).

Thanks,

beatrice.
Holger Wansing
2016-06-03 19:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
<p>Similarly, <tt>exim4</tt> and <tt>sendmail</tt> both provide the
functionality of a mail transport agent. They are therefore said to
-provide the virtual package, "mail transport agent".
+provide the virtual package, "mail-transport-agent".
Shouldn't the comma after package be removed?

[...]
-<p>More detailed information on the use of each these terms can be found
+<p>More detailed information on the use of each one of these terms can be found
Remove the "one" in the above line?
@@ -168,11 +168,11 @@
engine for newsgroups.
<p>For example, to find out what experiences people have had with
- finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching on
+ finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching
the phrase <tt>Promise Linux driver</tt>. This will show you all the
- postings that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
+ posts that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
these topics. If you add <tt>Debian</tt> to those search strings, you'll
- also get the postings specifically related to Debian.
+ also get the posts specifically related to Debian.
Is that correct: postings -> posts?


Holger
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Justin B Rye
2016-06-03 19:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Holger Wansing
Hi,
<p>Similarly, <tt>exim4</tt> and <tt>sendmail</tt> both provide the
functionality of a mail transport agent. They are therefore said to
-provide the virtual package, "mail transport agent".
+provide the virtual package, "mail-transport-agent".
Shouldn't the comma after package be removed?
You can get away with having a comma there, but it would be better
without it.
Post by Holger Wansing
[...]
-<p>More detailed information on the use of each these terms can be found
+<p>More detailed information on the use of each one of these terms can be found
Remove the "one" in the above line?
It definitely needs the extra "of", but the "one" is redundant.
Post by Holger Wansing
@@ -168,11 +168,11 @@
engine for newsgroups.
<p>For example, to find out what experiences people have had with
- finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching on
+ finding drivers for Promise controllers under Debian, try searching
the phrase <tt>Promise Linux driver</tt>. This will show you all the
- postings that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
+ posts that contain these strings, i.e. those where people discussed
these topics. If you add <tt>Debian</tt> to those search strings, you'll
- also get the postings specifically related to Debian.
+ also get the posts specifically related to Debian.
Is that correct: postings -> posts?
Both are plausible, but the expression "forum/list/news posts" seems
to get a lot more Google hits than "forum/list/news postings".
--
JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
Beatrice Torracca
2016-06-04 08:10:01 UTC
Permalink
[skipping quotes]

Hi!

Including all the corrections and suggestions of Justin and Holger here
is my final proposed patch for these 3 files.

Thanks,

beatrice
Holger Wansing
2016-06-13 21:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Beatrice Torracca
[skipping quotes]
Hi!
Including all the corrections and suggestions of Justin and Holger here
is my final proposed patch for these 3 files.
I have just committed this, except the part for standard priority
packages: mutt and exim4 are still standard priority (in unstable as of
now), so I left them in the doc. Removed the rest.


Holger
--
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