Last part of the proposed changes to debian-faq

[Beatrice Torracca]

Hi!

This is the last part of my proposed changes to the debian-faq. Again
they are mostly minor correction (from a non-native speaker) of the
English language.

I updated some contents on architectures and on trusted organizations
for donations on the basis of the Debian website's content.

And I used Linux Mint instead of Linex as an example of Debian
derivative distribution.

Thanks,

beatrice.

[Justin B Rye]

Index: choosing.sgml
===================================================================
--- choosing.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ choosing.sgml (copia locale)
@@ -29,7 +29,8 @@
in. You can easily switch to the more modern unstable (or testing) once you are a little
more confident.</p>
-<item><p>If you are a desktop user with a lot of experience in the operating system and does not mind
+<item><p>If you are a desktop user with a lot of experience in the
+operating system and who does not mind
facing the odd bug now and then, or even full system breakage, use unstable. It has all the latest and
greatest software, and bugs are usually fixed swiftly.</p>

Or simpler,
<item><p>If you are a desktop user with a lot of experience in the operating system and do not mind

@@ -62,9 +63,9 @@
even without subscribing. The archives can be read
through <url id="http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/">. Information regarding
subscribing to the list can be found at the location of archives. You are

^the

-strongly encouraged to post your questions on the mailing-list than on <url
+strongly encouraged to post your questions on the mailing-list rather than on <url
id="http://www.debian.org/support" name="irc">. The mailing-list messages are
-archived, so solution to your problem can
+archived, so the solution to your problem can
help others with the same issue. </p>

[...]

<sect1>Could you tell me whether to install stable, testing or unstable?
<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on the software needed, the users' needs
</p>

I'm not sure I follow this. What "needs" does the user have (that
Debian can help with) other than software? Are we imagining the
sysadmin as a different person from the user? If so then that's who
they should probably be asking for advice. I suspect this may have
been originally intended to mean:

<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs and your experience in system
administration. Here are some tips:

Or maybe:

<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs, your willingness to deal with possible

@@ -166,8 +167,8 @@
<p>The idea is that, if the package has any problems, it would be discovered by
people using unstable and will be fixed before it enters testing. This keeps
-the testing in an usable state for most period of the time. Overall a
-brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things are always not so simple. Consider
+the testing in an usable state for most of the time. Overall a

No article before the quasi-name "testing"; and "usable" begins with a
consonant (you can't trust English orthography):

testing in a usable state for most of the time. Overall a

+brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things aren't always so simple. Consider
the following situation:</p>
<p><list>
@@ -207,18 +208,18 @@
</list>
<p>The situation can get much more complicated, if say, XYZ depends on 4 other
-packages. This could in turn lead to unusable testing distribution for months.
-The above scenario which is artificially created by me, can occur in the real
+packages. This could in turn lead to an unusable testing distribution for months.
+The above scenario which is artificially created by me, can occur in real
life. But such occurrences are rare.

That precise scenario can't occur in real life because there isn't
(and never will be) a real package named XYZ. It's obviously a
hypothetical scenario, and obviously designed to warn about analogous
real ones. How about:

packages. This could in turn lead to an unusable testing distribution for months.
While the scenario above is imaginary, similar things can occur in real life,
though they are rare.

Wait... doesn't this whole scenario depend on packages taking ten days
to migrate (with a default urgency=low)? The default changed to five
(i.e. urgency=medium) a couple of years ago - see #730343.

<sect1>From an administrator's point of view, which distribution
requires more attention?
-<p>One of the main reasons many people chose Debian over other Linux distributions is
+<p>One of the main reasons many people choose Debian over other Linux distributions is
that it requires very little administration. People want a system that just works.
In general one can say, that stable requires very little maintenance, while

^
Another surplus comma.

testing and unstable require constant maintenance from the administrator. If you are
-running stable, all you need to worry about is, keeping track of security
+running stable, all you need to worry about is keeping track of security
updates. If you are running either testing or unstable it is a good idea to be
aware of the new bugs discovered in the installed packages, new
bugfixes/features introduced

[...]

@@ -253,15 +254,15 @@
<item>After some time testing becomes frozen. But it will still be called
testing. At this point no new packages from unstable can migrate to testing
unless they include release-critical (RC) bug fixes.
- <item>When testing is frozen, all the new bugfixes introduced, have to be
+ <item>When testing is frozen, all the new bugfixes introduced have to be
manually checked by the members of the release team. This is done to ensure
- that there won't be any unknown severe problems in the frozen
+ that there won't be any unknown severe problem in the frozen
testing.

You've been changing "(not) any Xs" to "(not) any Y", enforcing a
grammar rule that modern English speakers generally ignore. Usually
it does no harm, but here it seems to me that it changes the sense
from "it won't have whatever-sort-of errors" to "it will have
absolutely no errors". Keep it as

that there won't be any unknown severe problems in the frozen

[...]

@@ -398,8 +399,8 @@
they use the same formatting and name (.deb), does not make them immediately
compatible.
-<p>For example, Knoppix is a Linux distribution designed to be booted as a live CD where as
-Debian is designed to be installed on hard-disk. Knoppix is great if you want
+<p>For example, Knoppix is a Linux distribution designed to be booted as a live CD whereas
+Debian is designed to be installed on the hard-disk. Knoppix is great if you want
to know whether a particular hardware works, or if you want to experience how a

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Uh-oh, a "-ware" noun used as countably singular. Nope, I'm afraid
they're all mass nouns; you need

to know whether a particular piece of hardware works, or if you want to experience how a

linux system 'feels' etc., Knoppix is good for demonstration purposes while

^
Linux has a capital letter. In these days of Linux-based Android
devices I would prefer to credit the "feel" to "GNU/Linux".

[...]

Index: compat.sgml
===================================================================
--- compat.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ compat.sgml (copia locale)
@@ -47,10 +47,9 @@
</list>
<p>The development of binary distributions of Debian for
-<em/armhf/ (for ARM boards and devices with a floating-point unit),
<em/arv32/ (for Atmel's 32-bit RISC architecture),
<em/m32/ (for 32-bit RISC microprocessor of Renesas Technology),
-<em/s390x/ (for the 64-bit userland for IBM System z mainframes), and
+and
<em/sh/ (for Hitachi SuperH processors)
is currently underway.

Is it really?

Index: contrib.sgml
===================================================================
--- contrib.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ contrib.sgml (copia locale)

[...]

@@ -72,9 +73,10 @@
<p>There are a number of organizations created in different countries that hold
assets in trust for Debian. The <url id="http://www.debian.org/donations"
name="donations page"> lists the trusted organisations individuals can donate
-to. At the time of this writing there are two of them: <url
-id="http://www.ffis.de/" name="Verein zur Förderung Freier Informationen & Software"> (in Germany) and
-the <url id="https://france.debian.net/" name="Debian France Association"> (in France).
+to. At the time of this writing there are three of them: <url
+id="http://www.ffis.de/" name="Verein zur Förderung Freier Informationen & Software"> (in Germany),
+the <url id="https://france.debian.net/" name="Debian France Association"> (in
+France), and <url id="http://debian.ch/" name="debian.ch"> (Switzerland and the Principality of Liechtenstein).
Additional affiliate organisations in other countries are listed in <url id="https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Auditor/Organizations" name="Organizations"> page in the Debian Wiki.

This paragraph spells "organi?ation" inconsistently. Is the FAQ
localised or localized?

[...]

Index: ftparchives.sgml
===================================================================
--- ftparchives.sgml (revisione 11198)
+++ ftparchives.sgml (copia locale)

[...]

@@ -42,10 +42,10 @@
release 1.1, <tt>rex</tt> for release 1.2, <tt>bo</tt> for releases 1.3.x,
<tt>hamm</tt> for release 2.0, <tt>slink</tt> for release 2.1,
<tt>potato</tt> for release 2.2, <tt>woody</tt> for release 3.0,
-<tt>sarge</tt> for release 3.1, <tt>etch</tt> for release 4.0, and
-<tt>lenny</tt> for release 5.0, and
+<tt>sarge</tt> for release 3.1, <tt>etch</tt> for release 4.0,
+<tt>lenny</tt> for release 5.0,
<tt>squeeze</tt> for release 6.0,
-<tt>wheezy</tt> for release 7.0.
+<tt>wheezy</tt> for release 7.0, and <tt>jessie</tt> for release 8.0.

Hang on; squeeze was "6.0", but by the time we got to jessie the
release announcement definitely said plain "8" (things weren't
consistent in wheezy, but I think it was *meant* to be "7").

[Beatrice Torracca]

On Saturday 04 June 2016, at 12:23 +0100, Justin B Rye wrote:

Hi!

thanks again for the corrections. I will apply them to my patch so that
I can suggest to Holger a cleaner patch.

Post by Justin B Rye

<sect1>Could you tell me whether to install stable, testing or unstable?
<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on the software needed, the users' needs
</p>

I'm not sure I follow this. What "needs" does the user have (that
Debian can help with) other than software? Are we imagining the
sysadmin as a different person from the user? If so then that's who
they should probably be asking for advice. I suspect this may have
<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs and your experience in system
<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs, your willingness to deal with possible

Yes, I imagined it was including the scenario where there are several users
and one sysadmin (even in a house PC there could be someone more PC-savy,
I guess) who of course would be the one asking the question.

I will use your first suggestion in my proposed patch and Holger or the
maintainer of the document can decide on this.

Post by Justin B Rye

@@ -166,8 +167,8 @@
<p>The idea is that, if the package has any problems, it would be discovered by
people using unstable and will be fixed before it enters testing. This keeps
-the testing in an usable state for most period of the time. Overall a
-brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things are always not so simple. Consider
+the testing in an usable state for most of the time. Overall a

No article before the quasi-name "testing"; and "usable" begins with a
testing in a usable state for most of the time. Overall a

True! I did not spot those errors. I imagine that the whole document
would benefit from an overall English review from a native speaker.

Post by Justin B Rye

@@ -253,15 +254,15 @@
<item>After some time testing becomes frozen. But it will still be called
testing. At this point no new packages from unstable can migrate to testing
unless they include release-critical (RC) bug fixes.
- <item>When testing is frozen, all the new bugfixes introduced, have to be
+ <item>When testing is frozen, all the new bugfixes introduced have to be
manually checked by the members of the release team. This is done to ensure
- that there won't be any unknown severe problems in the frozen
+ that there won't be any unknown severe problem in the frozen
testing.

You've been changing "(not) any Xs" to "(not) any Y", enforcing a
grammar rule that modern English speakers generally ignore. Usually
it does no harm, but here it seems to me that it changes the sense
from "it won't have whatever-sort-of errors" to "it will have
absolutely no errors". Keep it as
that there won't be any unknown severe problems in the frozen

I did not know that grammar rule was not used. Anyway I really thought it
wanted to say that it will try to guarantee that there will be zero
unknown severe problems.
I guess you never can be 100% sure, anyway

I will apply your correction, of course.

Post by Justin B Rye
[...]

linux system 'feels' etc., Knoppix is good for demonstration purposes while

^
Linux has a capital letter. In these days of Linux-based Android
devices I would prefer to credit the "feel" to "GNU/Linux".

On this (GNU/Linux) I will let others decide.

Post by Justin B Rye

@@ -47,10 +47,9 @@
</list>
<p>The development of binary distributions of Debian for
-<em/armhf/ (for ARM boards and devices with a floating-point unit),
<em/arv32/ (for Atmel's 32-bit RISC architecture),
<em/m32/ (for 32-bit RISC microprocessor of Renesas Technology),
-<em/s390x/ (for the 64-bit userland for IBM System z mainframes), and
+and
<em/sh/ (for Hitachi SuperH processors)
is currently underway.

Is it really?

I was as "conservative" as I could in my corrections on this, since I
have no first hand experience. I checked some Debian web pages. Those I
removed here I did remove because they are now included in the released
architectures or I added a note when I found it in the Release Notes.

The page https://www.debian.org/ports/ indeed says that avr32 (not
arv32 as it was spelled here) and m32 have been suspended/abandoned. Sh is
listed as currently underway.

Looking at that page I could propose to change that paragraph to
«The development of binary distributions of Debian for hurd-i386 (for GNU
Hurd kernel on i386 32 bit PCs), mips64el (for 64 bit MIPS in
little-endian mode), or1k (for OpenRISC 1200 open source CPUs),
powerpcspe (port for the "Signal Processing Engine" hardware), sparc64
(for 64 bit SPARC processors), sh (for Hitachi SuperH processors), and
x32 (for amd64/x86_64 CPUs using 32-bit pointers) is currently
underway.»

But maybe it would be a good idea to just link to the "Ports"
webpage. Holger or the document maintainer can decide on this.

Post by Justin B Rye
This paragraph spells "organi?ation" inconsistently. Is the FAQ
localised or localized?

I suspect half localised and half localized, as it often happens when
more than one ppl work on the same document in the course of several
years :)

I will spell organization consistently in this paragraph in my patch.

Thanks,

beatrice

[Justin B Rye]

Post by Beatrice Torracca
The page https://www.debian.org/ports/ indeed says that avr32 (not
arv32 as it was spelled here) and m32 have been suspended/abandoned. Sh is
listed as currently underway.
Looking at that page I could propose to change that paragraph to
«The development of binary distributions of Debian for hurd-i386 (for GNU
Hurd kernel on i386 32 bit PCs), mips64el (for 64 bit MIPS in
little-endian mode), or1k (for OpenRISC 1200 open source CPUs),
powerpcspe (port for the "Signal Processing Engine" hardware), sparc64
(for 64 bit SPARC processors), sh (for Hitachi SuperH processors), and
x32 (for amd64/x86_64 CPUs using 32-bit pointers) is currently
underway.»

I vaguely remembered hearing about or1k, but it isn't (for instance)
on "https://wiki.debian.org/Glossary" so I went looking it up on
"https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRISC", where I read:

* 2016-02-11: openrisc.debian.net shut down, project officially
declared dead due to copyright issues.

(The blog link doesn't explain in detail what issues these are; it
just links to a post on a mailinglist that isn't there any longer.)

So I suppose "https://www.debian.org/ports/" needs an update.

[Holger Wansing]

[ Adding debian-www to the loop ]


Hi,

Post by Justin B Rye
I vaguely remembered hearing about or1k, but it isn't (for instance)
on "https://wiki.debian.org/Glossary" so I went looking it up on
* 2016-02-11: openrisc.debian.net shut down, project officially
declared dead due to copyright issues.
(The blog link doesn't explain in detail what issues these are; it
just links to a post on a mailinglist that isn't there any longer.)
So I suppose "https://www.debian.org/ports/" needs an update.

Thus I will set or1k to dead at the webpage.


Holger

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Post by Beatrice Torracca

<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs and your experience in system
<p>No, this is a rather subjective issue. There is no perfect answer
as it depends on your software needs, your willingness to deal with possible

Yes, I imagined it was including the scenario where there are several users
and one sysadmin (even in a house PC there could be someone more PC-savy,
I guess) who of course would be the one asking the question.
I will use your first suggestion in my proposed patch and Holger or the
maintainer of the document can decide on this.

Yes, +1 for the first variant.

Post by Beatrice Torracca

linux system 'feels' etc., Knoppix is good for demonstration purposes while

^
Linux has a capital letter. In these days of Linux-based Android
devices I would prefer to credit the "feel" to "GNU/Linux".

On this (GNU/Linux) I will let others decide.

+1 for GNU/Linux

Post by Beatrice Torracca

This paragraph spells "organi?ation" inconsistently. Is the FAQ
localised or localized?

organization is American english, right?
In another situation we have also changed words to match American english.

Post by Beatrice Torracca
I suspect half localised and half localized, as it often happens when
more than one ppl work on the same document in the course of several
years :)
I will spell organization consistently in this paragraph in my patch.

+1.


Holger

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

-process, your configuration files might be lost and....
+process, your configuration files might be lost and...

I think it should be "might be lost and ..." (space after and)

<p>The idea is that, if the package has any problems, it would be discovered by
people using unstable and will be fixed before it enters testing. This keeps
-the testing in an usable state for most period of the time. Overall a
-brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things are always not so simple. Consider
+the testing in an usable state for most of the time. Overall a
+brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things aren't always so simple. Consider
the following situation:</p>

Maybe "But things aren't always that simple."
or "But things aren't always as simple."

-<p>One of the main reasons many people chose Debian over other Linux distributions is
+<p>One of the main reasons many people choose Debian over other Linux distributions is

Maybe "One of the main reasons why many people choose Debian ..."

@@ -67,6 +66,12 @@
<em/arm/ was dropped too in this release, as it was superseded by
the <em/armel/ architecture.
+<!-- info from Jessie Release Notes -->
+<p>Support for the 32-bit s390 port (s390) was discontinued and replaced
+with s390x in Jessie (Debian 8.0). In addition, the ports to IA-64 and
+Sparc had to be removed from this release due to insufficient developer
+support.

So add it:

<p>Support for the 32-bit <em/s390/ port (s390) was discontinued and replaced
with s390x in Jessie (Debian 8.0). Additionally, the ports to IA-64 and
Sparc had to be removed from this release due to insufficient developer
support.

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to maintain existing
packages which have been "orphaned" by their previous maintainers, to
-develop new packages, and to provide user support.
+develop new packages, to write documentation, to do translation work, to
+help with the Debian website, to provide user support, etc.

Is it correct/good, to mention the "to" every time? Or can they be removed to
improve readability?

<p>See <ref id="choosing"> for help when choosing a Debian distribution.
@@ -42,10 +42,10 @@
release 1.1, <tt>rex</tt> for release 1.2, <tt>bo</tt> for releases 1.3.x,
<tt>hamm</tt> for release 2.0, <tt>slink</tt> for release 2.1,
<tt>potato</tt> for release 2.2, <tt>woody</tt> for release 3.0,
-<tt>sarge</tt> for release 3.1, <tt>etch</tt> for release 4.0, and
-<tt>lenny</tt> for release 5.0, and
+<tt>sarge</tt> for release 3.1, <tt>etch</tt> for release 4.0,
+<tt>lenny</tt> for release 5.0,
<tt>squeeze</tt> for release 6.0,
-<tt>wheezy</tt> for release 7.0.
+<tt>wheezy</tt> for release 7.0, and <tt>jessie</tt> for release 8.0.

As Justin already said: Wheezy is Debian 7, and Jessie is Debian 8
(see the list at https://www.debian.org/releases/ ).

<p>They must be in sync on all architectures where they have been built and
mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also have to
-have fewer release-critical bugs than the versions currently in testing.
+have fewer release-critical bugs than the versions currently in unstable.
This way, we hope that `testing' is always close to being a release
candidate.

1. they also need to have fewer release-critical bugs (to avoid doubled "have")



Holger

[Justin B Rye]

Post by Holger Wansing
Hi,

-process, your configuration files might be lost and....
+process, your configuration files might be lost and...

I think it should be "might be lost and ..." (space after and)

I tend to follow the Chicago Manual of Style, which doesn't have a
space here, but there's remarkably little agreement.

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>The idea is that, if the package has any problems, it would be discovered by
people using unstable and will be fixed before it enters testing. This keeps
-the testing in an usable state for most period of the time. Overall a
-brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things are always not so simple. Consider
+the testing in an usable state for most of the time. Overall a
+brilliant concept, if you ask me. But things aren't always so simple. Consider
the following situation:</p>

Maybe "But things aren't always that simple."
or "But things aren't always as simple."

They're all grammatical; "that simple" is probably the most natural.

Post by Holger Wansing

-<p>One of the main reasons many people chose Debian over other Linux distributions is
+<p>One of the main reasons many people choose Debian over other Linux distributions is

Maybe "One of the main reasons why many people choose Debian ..."

Yes, again probably more natural English.

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to maintain existing
packages which have been "orphaned" by their previous maintainers, to
-develop new packages, and to provide user support.
+develop new packages, to write documentation, to do translation work, to
+help with the Debian website, to provide user support, etc.

Is it correct/good, to mention the "to" every time? Or can they be removed to
improve readability?

In this case where the first example is rather a long one the
repetition can be helpful as a way of re-establishing the grammatical
context; then once we've done it once we have to keep doing it. One
alternative would be to rerrange the clauses so the longest example
comes last, although this mixes in the "programmer-y" ones with the
"non-programmer-y" ones:

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to develop new packages,
write documentation, do translation work, help with the Debian website,
provide user support, maintain existing packages which have been
"orphaned" by their previous maintainers, etc.

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>They must be in sync on all architectures where they have been built and
mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also have to
-have fewer release-critical bugs than the versions currently in testing.
+have fewer release-critical bugs than the versions currently in unstable.
This way, we hope that `testing' is always close to being a release
candidate.

1. they also need to have fewer release-critical bugs (to avoid doubled "have")

Yes, an improvement. Or go back to "must" ("they must also have").

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Post by Justin B Rye

Post by Holger Wansing
Hi,

-process, your configuration files might be lost and....
+process, your configuration files might be lost and...

I think it should be "might be lost and ..." (space after and)

I tend to follow the Chicago Manual of Style, which doesn't have a
space here, but there's remarkably little agreement.

Ok. In German we would have a space there, that's why.

Post by Justin B Rye
[...]

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to maintain existing
packages which have been "orphaned" by their previous maintainers, to
-develop new packages, and to provide user support.
+develop new packages, to write documentation, to do translation work, to
+help with the Debian website, to provide user support, etc.

Is it correct/good, to mention the "to" every time? Or can they be removed to
improve readability?

In this case where the first example is rather a long one the
repetition can be helpful as a way of re-establishing the grammatical
context; then once we've done it once we have to keep doing it.

Ok. Then leave it as proposed by Beatrice.


Holger

--
Sent from my Jolla phone
http://w

[victory]

On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:32:13 +0000

Post by Justin B Rye

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to maintain existing
packages which have been "orphaned" by their previous maintainers, to
-develop new packages, and to provide user support.
+develop new packages, to write documentation, to do translation work, to
+help with the Debian website, to provide user support, etc.

Is it correct/good, to mention the "to" every time? Or can they be removed to
improve readability?

In this case where the first example is rather a long one the
repetition can be helpful as a way of re-establishing the grammatical
context; then once we've done it once we have to keep doing it.

this helps translation work which needs to parse structure

[Beatrice Torracca]

On Saturday 04 June 2016, at 21:45 +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:

Hi!

I incorporated all the proposed corrections and suggestions in this
thread and I attach an updated version of my proposed patch.

I also updated the example of the flow of packages from unstable to
testing to reflect the 5 days waiting period (instead of the old 10 days
period).

Aside the discussed changes I modified one change I made in the
ftparchives.sgml file. In my first version I added the codenames of
jessie and stretch, but I did not notice that the question was: "What
OTHER codenames have been used?". Indeed jessie and stretch were
mentioned in the previous question.

So I now changed that paragraph to:
«<p>Aside <tt>&releasename;</tt> and <tt>&testingreleasename;</tt>, other codenames that have been already used are: <tt>buzz</tt> for
release 1.1, <tt>rex</tt> for release 1.2, <tt>bo</tt> for releases 1.3.x,
<tt>hamm</tt> for release 2.0, <tt>slink</tt> for release 2.1,
<tt>potato</tt> for release 2.2, <tt>woody</tt> for release 3.0,
<tt>sarge</tt> for release 3.1, <tt>etch</tt> for release 4.0,
<tt>lenny</tt> for release 5.0,
<tt>squeeze</tt> for release 6.0, and
<tt>wheezy</tt> for release 7.»

Thanks,

beatrice

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

<p>You are advised not to use the Debian forums (either mailing lists or IRC)
-for help as people might advice you thinking that you are running a Debian
+for help as people might advise you thinking that you are running a Debian
system and the "fixes" they provide might not be suited to what you are
running. They might even worsen the problem you are facing.

Isn't this phrase somewhat confused?
"You are advised not to use the Debian forums for help as people might advise
you thinking that you are running a Debian system."

I would propose something like:
"You are advised not to use the Debian forums for help as people which are
trying to help you, might think that you are running a Debian system."

@@ -85,7 +92,7 @@
<item>FreeBSD: provided through the <em/kfreebsd-amd64/ and
<em/kfreebsd-i386/ ports, for 64-bit PCs and 32-bit PCs respectively. These
ports were first released in Debian 6.0 Squeeze as a <em/technology preview/.
-
+However they were not part of the Debian 8.0 Jessie release.
</list>

8.0 -> 8



Holger

[Justin B Rye]

Post by Holger Wansing

<p>You are advised not to use the Debian forums (either mailing lists or IRC)
-for help as people might advice you thinking that you are running a Debian
+for help as people might advise you thinking that you are running a Debian
system and the "fixes" they provide might not be suited to what you are
running. They might even worsen the problem you are facing.

Isn't this phrase somewhat confused?
"You are advised not to use the Debian forums for help as people might advise
you thinking that you are running a Debian system."

It's not confused, as such, but the way it recycles the word "advise"
might be worth avoiding.

Post by Holger Wansing
"You are advised not to use the Debian forums for help as people which are
trying to help you, might think that you are running a Debian system."

Change the "which" to a "who" and drop a comma:
"You are advised not to use the Debian forums [...] for help as people who are
trying to help you might think that you are running a Debian system."

or maybe that should be:

<p>You are advised not to use the Debian forums (either mailing lists or
IRC) for help as people there may base their suggestions on the assumption
that you are running a Debian system. These "fixes" might not be suited to
what you are running, and might even make your problem worse.

[victory]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:10:20 +0200
Holger Wansing wrote:

pkg_basics:487:
<url id="https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals.en.html#debmake-doc">.

s/.en.html//

pkgtools:403:
<p>In these cases, `foo-data' doesn't depend on `foo', so when you
remove the `foo' package it will not get automatically removed by most
package management tools. The same holds true for
the library packages. This is necessary to avoid circular
dependencies. However, if you use <prgn>apt-get</prgn>
(see <ref id="apt-get">) or <prgn>aptitude</prgn> (see <ref id="aptitude">)
as your package management tool, they will
track automatically installed packages and give the possibility to
remove them, when no packages needing them remain in your system.

longman:
need
1 [T not in progressive] to have to have something or someone,
because you cannot do something without them,
or because you cannot continue or cannot exist without them;
[=]require:

maybe needing here is invalid?

software:24:
LibreOffice.org productivity suite, Gnumeric and other spreadsheets,

.org?

uptodate:15:
shipped on the Debian CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.

s/Ray/ray/

changelog:24:
* Update section "Debian an the kernel". (Closes: #599018)

s/an/and/ ?

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Post by victory
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:10:20 +0200
<url id="https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals.en.html#debmake-doc">.
s/.en.html//

Yes.

Post by victory
<p>In these cases, `foo-data' doesn't depend on `foo', so when you
remove the `foo' package it will not get automatically removed by most
package management tools. The same holds true for
the library packages. This is necessary to avoid circular
dependencies. However, if you use <prgn>apt-get</prgn>
(see <ref id="apt-get">) or <prgn>aptitude</prgn> (see <ref id="aptitude">)
as your package management tool, they will
track automatically installed packages and give the possibility to
remove them, when no packages needing them remain in your system.
need
1 [T not in progressive] to have to have something or someone,
because you cannot do something without them,
or because you cannot continue or cannot exist without them;
maybe needing here is invalid?

Yes, better use "depending on them"

Post by victory
LibreOffice.org productivity suite, Gnumeric and other spreadsheets,
.org?

Yes, LibreOffice does not have the org in its official name.

Post by victory
shipped on the Debian CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.
s/Ray/ray/

I'm not sure here, but I'm ok with this change.

Post by victory
* Update section "Debian an the kernel". (Closes: #599018)
s/an/and/ ?

Yes.


Well done! Thanks


Holger

--
Sent from my

[Justin B Rye]

Post by victory
<url id="https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals.en.html#debmake-doc">.
s/.en.html//

Yes.

Post by victory
<p>In these cases, `foo-data' doesn't depend on `foo', so when you
remove the `foo' package it will not get automatically removed by most
package management tools. The same holds true for
the library packages. This is necessary to avoid circular
dependencies. However, if you use <prgn>apt-get</prgn>
(see <ref id="apt-get">) or <prgn>aptitude</prgn> (see <ref id="aptitude">)
as your package management tool, they will
track automatically installed packages and give the possibility to
remove them, when no packages needing them remain in your system.

^^^^^^^

Post by victory
need
1 [T not in progressive] to have to have something or someone,
because you cannot do something without them,
or because you cannot continue or cannot exist without them;
maybe needing here is invalid?

No, that's valid. "Need" is an oddly irregular verb that can't decide
whether or not it's a modal (and modals don't have -ing forms). But
"packages needing them" can't be the modal version, since it has an
object ("needing them") and no complement clause - so it's the regular
verb with an -ing form.

(Any native speakers reading this and thinking "what's irregular about
it?" should consider:
He needs to go!
* He need go!
He needn't go!
He need only go!
* Need he go?
Need I ask?
...where "*" means "I couldn't use this in conversational English".)

Post by victory
LibreOffice.org productivity suite, Gnumeric and other spreadsheets,
.org?

You're right - the suite hosted at openoffice.org was officially
"OpenOffice.org" (due to a trademark clash), but the version at
libreoffice.org is just called "LibreOffice".

Post by victory
shipped on the Debian CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.
s/Ray/ray/

Yes (so many spelling gotchas!)

Post by victory
* Update section "Debian an the kernel". (Closes: #599018)
s/an/and/ ?

Yes.

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Post by Justin B Rye

Post by victory
<p>In these cases, `foo-data' doesn't depend on `foo', so when you
remove the `foo' package it will not get automatically removed by most
package management tools. The same holds true for
the library packages. This is necessary to avoid circular
dependencies. However, if you use <prgn>apt-get</prgn>
(see <ref id="apt-get">) or <prgn>aptitude</prgn> (see <ref id="aptitude">)
as your package management tool, they will
track automatically installed packages and give the possibility to
remove them, when no packages needing them remain in your system.

^^^^^^^

Post by victory
need
1 [T not in progressive] to have to have something or someone,
because you cannot do something without them,
or because you cannot continue or cannot exist without them;
maybe needing here is invalid?

No, that's valid. "Need" is an oddly irregular verb that can't decide
whether or not it's a modal (and modals don't have -ing forms). But
"packages needing them" can't be the modal version, since it has an
object ("needing them") and no complement clause - so it's the regular
verb with an -ing form.

What I understood from victory's comment is, that "needing" is probably
a too strict verb in this case, better using some more diffuse word like
"making use of". (Using "depending on them", as I have suggested in my
other mail, is probably also not ideal.)
There is no strict package dependency set for this cases (no Depends: ),
so it should not be said, that the package *needs* the other one?

Post by Justin B Rye
(Any native speakers reading this and thinking "what's irregular about
He needs to go!
* He need go!
He needn't go!
He need only go!
* Need he go?
Need I ask?
...where "*" means "I couldn't use this in conversational English".)

Holger

[Justin B Rye]

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing

Post by victory
remove them, when no packages needing them remain in your system.

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing

Post by victory
maybe needing here is invalid?

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
What I understood from victory's comment is, that "needing" is probably
a too strict verb in this case, better using some more diffuse word like
"making use of". (Using "depending on them", as I have suggested in my
other mail, is probably also not ideal.)
There is no strict package dependency set for this cases (no Depends: ),
so it should not be said, that the package *needs* the other one?

Well, I don't know which objection victory was raising, but your
suggestion works either way.

remove them, when no packages making use of them remain in your system.

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,


I have committed the proposed changes, thanks to Beatrice and Justin.


Additionally, I made one more change, to reflect the General Resolution
to welcome non-packaging contributors (https://www.debian.org/vote/2010/vote_002):


- <sect id="contrib">How can I become a Debian developer?
+ <sect id="contrib">How can I become a Debian member/Debian developer?

<p>The development of Debian is open to all, and new users with the right
skills and/or the willingness to learn are needed to maintain existing
packages which have been "orphaned" by their previous maintainers, to
develop new packages, to write documentation, to do translation work, to
help with the Debian website, to provide user support, etc.

- <p>The description of becoming a Debian developer can be found at the
+ <p>The description of becoming a Debian member can be found at the
<url name="New Member's Corner" id="http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint">
at the Debian web site.


A complete patch of my commit is attached.


Holger

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

while translating the debian-faq into German I found two things that should
be changed IMO:


Index: ftparchives.sgml
===================================================================
--- ftparchives.sgml (Revision 11258)
+++ ftparchives.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
@@ -233,7 +233,7 @@
undergone some degree of testing in <qref id="unstable">unstable</qref>.

<p>They must be in sync on all architectures where they have been built and
-mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need have
+mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need to have
fewer release-critical bugs than the versions currently in unstable.
This way, we hope that `testing' is always close to being a release
candidate.
Index: pkgtools.sgml
===================================================================
--- pkgtools.sgml (Revision 11258)
+++ pkgtools.sgml (Arbeitskopie)
@@ -369,7 +369,7 @@
system.

<item><tt>apt-file search <var>foo</var></tt>
- <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package>, similar to the above, it
+ <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package> package, similar to the above, it
searches files which contain the substring or regular expression
<tt>foo</tt> in their full path names. The
advantage over the example above is that there is no need to retrieve the



Any objections?

Holger

[Justin B Rye]

Post by Holger Wansing
while translating the debian-faq into German I found two things that should

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
-mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need have
+mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need to have

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
- <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package>, similar to the above, it
+ <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package> package, similar to the above, it

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
Any objections?

No objections, those both need to be fixed.

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Post by Justin B Rye

Post by Holger Wansing
while translating the debian-faq into German I found two things that should

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
-mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need have
+mustn't have dependencies that make them uninstallable; they also need to have

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
- <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package>, similar to the above, it
+ <p>If you install the <package>apt-file</package> package, similar to the above, it

[...]

Post by Holger Wansing
Any objections?

No objections, those both need to be fixed.

Done. Thanks


Holger