Bug#1036358: release-notes: Debian 12 expected to be last release w/ installer for i386

[Ansgar]

Package: release-notes

I had been thinking about doing similar for installer images too, but
with other work going on too I think it got too late in the cycle to
make that change. My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images
for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going
forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie
~immediately after the release.

I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm,
possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in
Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm).

Maybe something along these lines:

+---
| Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing
| full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support
| i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386.
|
| We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded
| to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch,
| chroot environments or containers.
+---

Ansgar

[RL]

Post by Ansgar

My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images
for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going
forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie
~immediately after the release.

I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm,
possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in
Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm).

I suspect few would re-read 2.1 on upgrade... but is release-notes is
the best place to document what new installs can use? (maybe doesnt
matter as there wont be any new installs!)

Post by Ansgar
+---
| Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing
| full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support
| i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386.
|
| We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded
| to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch,
| chroot environments or containers.
+---

We already have a bit about i386 now meaning i686, but i think OK to
keep separate as that one is bookworm, and this is for the future

Adding links to explain jargon and adding markup: im hope ive got the right
arch-related entities right here...

<section id="i386-loses-full-support-from-trixie" arch="i386">
<title>
Bookworm is the last Debian release with full support for &arch-title;
<!-- i assume ok to capitalise 'B'ookworm here? saying 'Debian
bookworm' looked unneccessary -->
</title>
<para>
The next release, trixie, will not have full support for the
&architecture; architecture, for example there will be no official
installer. <!-- i assume people would object to saying that i386 is deprecated? -->
</para>
<para>
Debian recommends converting systems using the &architecture;
architecture to the 64-bit
PC architecture (known as <literal>amd64</literal>) before bookworm
becomes unsupported: <!-- any link to instructions to convert?
could make the work 'converting' a link to the amd64 installer if
nothing else ? -->
most computers manufactured since 2000<!-- AFAICS --> can use
<literal>amd64</literal>.
</para>
<para>
You can still run legacy 32-bit software on 64-bit systems using <ulink
url="&url-wiki;SystemVirtualization">containers</ulink>
<!-- did we use 'virtual machines' instead of 'containers' elsewhere? -->
or in <ulink
url="&url-wiki;Multiarch/HOWTO">multi-arch</ulink>
<ulink url="&url-wiki;chroot">chroots</ulink>.
</para>
</section>

(but shld use the &url-wiki; entity for wiki links)

Perhaps https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995397 (Xen no
longer supports 32-bit Xen PV guests) also relevent to the last para.

[Justin B Rye]

Post by RL

Post by Ansgar

My plan is therefore to ship i386 installer images
for bookworm as normal (including bookworm point releases going
forwards), but to disable those builds for testing/trixie
~immediately after the release.

I suggest to already document this in the release notes for bookworm,
possibly in Section 2.1 (Supported architectures) or a subsection in
Section 5 (Issues to be aware of for bookworm).

I suspect few would re-read 2.1 on upgrade... but is release-notes is
the best place to document what new installs can use? (maybe doesnt
matter as there wont be any new installs!)

I would expect a debian-announce message when it happens.

Post by RL

Post by Ansgar
+---
| Debian 12 is expected to be the last Debian release providing
| full support for i386. Debian 13 will only partially support
| i386 and no longer provide installation media for i386.
|
| We recommend hosts still running the i386 port to be upgraded
| to amd64. Legacy i386 software can be run using multi-arch,
| chroot environments or containers.
+---

We already have a bit about i386 now meaning i686, but i think OK to
keep separate as that one is bookworm, and this is for the future
Adding links to explain jargon and adding markup: im hope ive got the right
arch-related entities right here...
<section id="i386-loses-full-support-from-trixie" arch="i386">
<title>
Bookworm is the last Debian release with full support for &arch-title;
<!-- i assume ok to capitalise 'B'ookworm here? saying 'Debian
bookworm' looked unneccessary -->
</title>

Title lines don't need to be full sentences; this could be just
"&arch-title; support to be reduced from trixie".

Post by RL
<para>
The next release, trixie, will not have full support for the
&architecture; architecture, for example there will be no official
installer. <!-- i assume people would object to saying that i386 is deprecated? -->
</para>

Do we need a mention of the reason (i.e. that an increasing number of
upstreams are no longer supporting it)?

Perhaps the angle the Release Notes should be taking on this is to
announce what's going to happen for dist-upgrades to trixie/forkie.
When do we stop producing official Release Notes?

Post by RL
<para>
Debian recommends converting systems using the &architecture;
architecture to the 64-bit
PC architecture (known as <literal>amd64</literal>) before bookworm
becomes unsupported: <!-- any link to instructions to convert?
could make the work 'converting' a link to the amd64 installer if
nothing else ? -->

How about "https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading"? I was worried that it
might be a pre-systemd relic, but apparently not.

Post by RL
most computers manufactured since 2000<!-- AFAICS --> can use
<literal>amd64</literal>.

I'd have guessed later, given that the i386 arch held the lead in
popcon until 2012 ("https://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2012/17/"), but
this may just be because I use junk hardware.

Post by RL
</para>
<para>
You can still run legacy 32-bit software on 64-bit systems using <ulink
url="&url-wiki;SystemVirtualization">containers</ulink>
<!-- did we use 'virtual machines' instead of 'containers' elsewhere? -->
or in <ulink
url="&url-wiki;Multiarch/HOWTO">multi-arch</ulink>
<ulink url="&url-wiki;chroot">chroots</ulink>.
</para>
</section>
(but shld use the &url-wiki; entity for wiki links)
Perhaps https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995397 (Xen no
longer supports 32-bit Xen PV guests) also relevent to the last para.

It would make a relevant link for the "increasing number of upstreams"
I was mentioning.

[Paul Gevers]

Hi,

Post by Justin B Rye
When do we stop producing official Release Notes?

You mean when do we stop accepting changes to the Release Notes and stop
building them? Once the release is EOL. However, I don't expect a lot of
people to look for new versions after a while. You can still find the
old release notes on-line.

Paul

[Justin B Rye]

Post by Paul Gevers

Post by Justin B Rye
When do we stop producing official Release Notes?

You mean when do we stop accepting changes to the Release Notes and stop
building them? Once the release is EOL. However, I don't expect a lot of
people to look for new versions after a while. You can still find the old
release notes on-line.

I was just wondering if it was standard procedure for the last set of
Release Notes for a given arch to announce that that's what they are.
Given how arch qualification works, this could be tricky; but of
course we might still consider i386 a special case.

[Richard Lewis]

On Sat, 20 May 2023 15:21:49 +0100 Justin B Rye

Post by Justin B Rye
Perhaps the angle the Release Notes should be taking on this is to
announce what's going to happen for dist-upgrades to trixie/forkie.
When do we stop producing official Release Notes?

That was my aim too. Think people would welcome as much notice of
support going away - i dont think the
thread has concluded you cant dist-upgrade i386 after bookworm, but it
might get quite close to that for many user
I've added a MR to better track comments on this here:
https://salsa.debian.org/ddp-team/release-notes/-/merge_requests/171